A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
The latest cover of Time magazine imagines tech billionaire Elon Musk seated behind the resolute desk in the Oval Office. It's a nod to how much power he's wielding in Washington these days as he looks to slash the federal government. Now, yesterday, the world's richest man appeared in the Oval Office, though it was Donald Trump sitting behind the desk. The two men promoted and defended Musk's work. For more, we're joined now by NPR senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith. Tam, describe that scene for us.
TAMARA KEITH, BYLINE: Well, Musk was standing beside Trump, who was ready to sign an executive order that outlines a role for Musk's DOGE project in significantly culling the federal workforce. And also, Musk's young son was there the whole time. At one point, Musk put him up on his shoulders only to have the kid start sticking his fingers in his dad's ears, which interrupted things. This was the first time that we have seen Musk on camera with Trump speaking at length about the unit known as the Department of Government Efficiency, which is upending Washington and spawning lawsuits claiming that what he and his team are doing is illegal.
MARTÍNEZ: So did they address those losses? And what did President Trump say about whether his administration would comply with court orders that are holding up his agenda?
KEITH: Yeah. It's a big question, one that has legal scholars warning a potential constitutional crisis. There have been a number of preliminary rulings and injunctions in recent days where federal judges have found that some of these actions and executive orders appear to violate laws or the Constitution. Yesterday, Trump complained that an activist judge wants his administration to stop looking for waste, fraud and abuse.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We want to weed out the corruption. And it seems hard to believe that a judge could say, we don't want you to do that. Well, so maybe we have to look at the judges 'cause that's very serious. I think it's a very serious violation.
KEITH: It's not clear what case he's talking about there, but later when pressed by reporters about whether he would disobey a court order, Trump said he abides by the courts, and he would just have to appeal the rulings.
MARTÍNEZ: OK. So let's turn to Elon Musk now. He and his team have been plowing through agencies, gaining access to their computer systems, also looking to make cuts. A lot of questions, though, about what his team is really doing. So did any of that get cleared up?
KEITH: Musk talked about strangely specific things like payment categorization codes being missing from Treasury payments or the antiquated way that retirement paperwork is processed. And then he also offered platitudes about deficit math.
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ELON MUSK: What are the two ingredients that are really necessary in order to cut the budget deficit in half from 2 trillion to 1 trillion? And it's really two things - competence and caring. And if you add competence and caring, you'll cut the budget deficit in half.
KEITH: He offered shady sounding descriptions of financial malfeasance. But Trump - but Musk really hasn't detailed how what he is doing adds up to the billions of dollars that he's claiming he has already saved the American taxpayers.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. And just to be clear, he offers no evidence of that financial malfeasance. Now, his companies include SpaceX and Starlink. They do a lot of business with the government. Did they address potential conflicts of interest there?
KEITH: Both Trump and Musk dismissed concerns. Musk said he checks in with Trump regularly to make sure he's OK with what he's doing, and Musk argued that transparency is the answer to concerns.
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MUSK: I fully expect to be scrutinized and get, you know, a daily proctology exam, basically. Might as well just camp out there. It's not like I think I can get away with something. I'll be scrutinized nonstop.
KEITH: Colorful language there. But Musk is filing a confidential financial disclosure that the public won't be able to see. He claimed that everything the DOGE team is doing is being published on its website. But that site is literally just an all-black page with a golden dollar sign and the words Department of Government Efficiency, the people voted for major reform. Really, the only way the public is learning about what the DOGE team is doing is from posts that Musk and a DOGE account are putting up on X, the social media site that Musk owns.
MARTÍNEZ: All right. That's NPR's Tamara Keith. Tam, thanks.
KEITH: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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