President Joe Biden and Donald Trump square off for their first debate tonight. The Alabama Republican Party will be watching how the ground rules for the event impact Trump. The microphones will be muted after each candidate has spoken and there will be no audience at the debate. John Wahl is chairman of the Alabama Republican Party. APR News Director Pat Duggins spoke with Wahl on a range of issues surrounding the debate and the election.
Pat Duggins -- So as far as Thursday's debate is concerned, now that we're this close, what are your expectations?
Alabama Republican Party Chairman John Wahl— You know, I think this debate could be very pivotal for both candidates. I think we're looking at a scenario where we have seen the indictment and then the conviction of Donald Trump and Hunter Biden. Neither of those have really played significant changes in the polls, and I think that's because this cycle, voters are concentrated on issues. They see these as politically motivated, the cases, the court cases, as politically motivated. They're looking past those court cases. They're looking past the political aspects and looking to the issues that will affect their lives. And I think this debate is a great opportunity for both candidates. I think Biden has to explain why his policies aren't working, and that he has a plan to change the country around. And I think if he's not able to do that, and Donald Trump is able to explain that America was better four years ago in pretty much every aspect of life for the American people, he's going to come out of this winter. So this is a critical moment for both campaigns.
Pat—So, Mr Biden has spent about a week or so preparing, and Mr Trump stayed on the campaign trail, and he's only spending a couple of days getting ready. From your own perspective, your own opinion, do you wish Mr Trump had spent more time preparing?
Wahl-- No, look, I think that shows the leadership between these two candidates. We have to be honest about what we're seeing from Joe Biden, and that's a candidate and a president who's who's, frankly, moving slow, not reacting quickly to critical situations. A good leader doesn't take as much time to prepare, because they're ready to act immediately. And I think that's the personality Donald Trump. Whether you love him or hate him, you have to, you have to recognize that leadership quality in him. He is ready. He's going to be honest, he's going to be quick. He's going to just tell the American people what he thinks. Look, politicians take time to prepare because they're they're crafting their message in a way. So basically, they're not being completely honest. And I think that's what we're seeing from the Biden campaign. They're trying to figure out how they can craft a message that explains the American people why they're failing. Donald Trump doesn't need to craft that message. He's going to be honest. He's going to shoot from the hip. He's going to tell the American people what he thinks, and that's his style. Love him. Hate him.
Pat—Building on an earlier comment that you made, Biden's critics have questioned his mental acuity, but now they're published reports with Trump saying that Biden is like a sharpened season debater. So mixed messaging, or what do you think?
Wahl-- Well, that's, that's a little, there's, that's a little jockeying going into a competition. Anytime you're going into a sparring map to the other person, you start playing mind games with them. And I think that's exactly what's happening here for the Trump campaign. They're, they're, they know their opponent. They want to throw their opponent off. They won, Biden thinking, Oh, I've got it. I'm a seasoned, great debater. I need to do a great job. That's exactly what they want. That's when your opponent makes mistakes. Is when they're when they're worried and when they're nervous. And I think this week of preparation shows that there is some nervousness there from Biden. So it's going to be interesting to see. Can he hold it together? Does he have, you know, moments where he is on the back foot, where Trump is able to to out, have more energy outpace him, and really, like I said, drill into the fact that is, is the country as a whole better than it was four years ago? You said no to this
Pat—This came up the last time we spoke, but I'm going to bring it up again, because there's been an editorial in USA Today, that says the Trump may not show up on Thursday. What do you think?
Wahl-- I would be very surprised that Donald Trump didn't show up? I think he, he sees he, he knows what the American people know, and that that they are having problems putting on the table. They are having trouble with the economy. The cost of living is skyrocketing. Our foreign policy is a disaster. The southern border is wide open. Donald Trump had policies in place that were lowering illegal immigration, keeping our community safe, keeping drugs off the street, and Biden intentionally and purposely reversed those. This debate is a great opportunity for Donald Trump to hit on all of these critical issues that are affecting the American people. And I think he will be there. And I think it would be a great mistake if he's not.
Pat-- What does a win represent for you in terms of Donald Trump?
Wahl-- I think I think a win comes back to those policy positions. I think the Republican Party as a whole, and our candidates need to get back to talking about policy and why what we stand for will help the American people have a better, happier, safer and more successful life. And I think we have the issues on our side, and I think if we can communicate those issues to the public, we win.
Pat -- There's some people who are questioning, why have it in June? What do you think?
Wahl-- You know, I also find that curious. You know, I you know, traditionally, you would see this happening after the conventions, when we have two official nominees. So, you know, that was a decision that the Trump campaign and the Biden campaign made together, and it's going to make for a longer and more interesting election cycle. So for us politicos, we're excited about it. You know, this is the first chance to really see the two candidates square off head to head. Do we see a new Donald Trump, you know, who's a little more paced in his messaging, who's who's not as aggressive, but talks more about policy? And do we see a Biden who can hold up against his record? This is the start, the real start, of the 2024, presidential election campaign.
Pat-- I've heard other commentators say, the best way for Trump to move forward is for Donald Trump to be “less like Donald Trump”. But isn't that asking a bit much of the candidate? I mean, we pretty much know the way that he is right.
Wahl-- Oh, it is but look, it's like I said, he can be just as aggressive. We want to see those leadership qualities. We want to see him bold. We want to see him talking about, you know, putting America first. The American first policy that he talked about, that he kind of fought for as president, was actually very popular with the public, and it helped America be successful. And so I think, I think we, what we as a party want to see is we want to see Donald Trump come out swinging, but not on, not on personal issues or personal attacks. We want to see him be the old Donald Trump talking about the issues that affect the people of America.
Pat -- One last question regarding the debate, and I've got a couple other things I'd like to talk over with you. There's got, there's not going to be an audience because of the way CNN has set this up. And I'm wondering the way Donald Trump plays off of an audience. How do you think this will impact him for good or for bad?
Wahl-- Yeah, well, you know, and I think, once again, that was a, you know, something that I think was a situation for the Biden campaign. I think, look, Donald Trump obviously feeds off of audience. An audience feeds off of Donald Trump. It's what makes him special. He immediately built a connection with the people in the room. Does that? How much does that play into this debate? Only time will tell, and we will we will see as the candidates are on stage and how they interact.
Pat—Sir, I’d like to pivot from this, and I'd like to get your thoughts, because sometime this week, the US Supreme Court is due to issue its ruling regarding President Trump's assertion of presidential immunity. I wouldn't mind getting your thoughts on that, depending on which way the decision goes, would that be okay?
Wahl-- Oh, for sure. Great.
Pat—So, if SCOTUS comes out and says Donald Trump has no presidential immunity at all. What would your thoughts be if the decision went that way?
Wahl-- I mean, look, I think it's obvious that the charges that are being, currently being brought against Donald Trump are politically motivated. I think it's important that we respect the Supreme Court's decision, and kind of follow now, I will also highlight the fact that I believe the cases brought against Donald Trump recently are politically motivated, and that the American people, in the end, are the court of public opinion. And whether you know this Supreme Court ruling does not necessarily dictate the results of the election. And I think, you know, constitutionally, they looked into it, they studied it. They are in this position. We respect their decision, and we will go to the court of public's opinion in the fall and let the voters decide, as they should be able to do.
Pat—What happens if the High Court decides that Mr Trump has at least some limited immunity regarding alleged crimes committed while he was in office. What concerns would you have that this might empower Joe Biden to do something?
Wahl-- Well, I think, look, presidential immunity is an important part of American tradition, and there's a reason for that. A president in office is going to have his political opponents attacking him. They're going to be making you know, you looking for anything that might happen or anything they can use or twist into a political weapon. And I think that's why our founders recognize the importance for presidential immunity. I think that's why that respect has always been there, and I think it needs to be upheld no matter who is president, Republican or Democrat. It's critical that we have a leader who can lead, and that's that's what we need as America. And to be honest, that's where we're already seeing Joe Biden fail, but I would uphold that for any president.
Pat -- So depending on which way the decision goes, I mean, do you foresee President Biden's critics kind of renewing their focus on the Hunter Biden case, because the President was was allegedly part of that, or at least he was associated with it.
Wahl-- You know, I think there are, there are areas with Hunter Biden that do need to be investigated. I do not believe it was the gun case. I believe the court got that wrong. I believe every single person in. In the country has a second amendment right, and that includes Hunter Biden. You know, the Second Amendment the Constitution stands for both Republicans and Democrats, and I think there are serious concerns with some, you know, issues and some corruption with the Biden family. And I hope those are investigated and the right cases are brought forward and they're looked into at the end, though, whether it's Hunter Biden or whether it's Donald Trump, I think we as a people have got to get away, and we have got to make sure that our government stops trying to use the justice system as a political weapon. That is what separates a free and healthy society from a banana republic. And I think we have seen Democrats move in this direction where they're trying to use the court system and they're trying to use the legal process to go after their political opponents, and I think that is completely inappropriate. I think it's backfired on them. And now, I think you see them almost in a rush say, Oh, well, we're going to we're going to prosecute Hunter Biden as well. Well, that's not justice for him or Donald Trump. And I think we need to get back to talking about the issues and and deciding what candidates are best for the American people based on the issues, not on a politically motivated court case. And
Pat – Last question on SCOTUS, there have been critics there that say that the Supreme Court took so long to make their make their minds up and issue their report that it gave “de facto” immunity to Trump no matter what the decision is. What are your thoughts on that criticism?
Wahl-- Oh, well, look, the court system is notoriously slow, and the Supreme Court has the right, the privilege and the right to make sure that they have the time to get their decision right. And I think anyone trying to rush them are saying that somehow Donald Trump benefited from it. Benefited from it, does not understand the legal process and are really trying to just use any talking point to go after the president. We know the court system is slow. We know that judges take their time, and we need to respect that, because they're the ones who are making these hard decisions and looking into past legal cases, the Constitution, Court precedent, just so many things that they have to consider as they're making these very weighty decisions. And we should respect that process. We should respect them as they work hard to try to get the right verdict.
Pat—One last point. And that's the upcoming July sentencing of Mr. Trump. And we spoke about that earlier, right after the court case, I wanted to see if any anything you wanted to add to that in terms of the GOP convention being so close to the date where Mr. Trump hears his sentence in New York.
Wahl-- Yeah, well, I mean, once again, the court case in New York, I think we saw a clear political motivation from both the prosecution and the judge in the case, and that is very concerning, the legal process should never be used as a political weapon against your political opponents. That being said, I think Donald Trump is going to rise above this. I think we're going to see a very strong candidate come out of that. I think we're going to see an appeal process, whatever the sentencing is, July 11th, this case is going to move forward, and it's going to continue to be litigated as Donald Trump seeks justice and wants to get out of an area where where he did not get a fair trial. I think the timing of this court date is very suspicious. I think it puts, you know, Donald Trump's campaign and the entire Republican National Convention in a very, very hard situation. I think, once again, that's just the Democrats trying to, trying to use the court system as a weapon to to make life harder for Republicans and our nominee.
Pat -- And now again, politically speaking, what complications are going to result if the sentence includes jail time.
Wahl—I think it would be a very serious mistake of the jail sentence didn't quit jail time. We have a, you know, a court system in New York, and a DA who have actually been taking criminals who have been breaking in, you know, robbery, robberies, and they have not been giving those people any jail time. And, so if we saw a double standard here, to the point that they gave a former president jail time, I think it would be a clear misuse of their power. I think we would see that double standard in play. I think you're going to see people go back look at the other cases where people in similar situations, or even, like said, far more, far more serious crimes that were not jailed, and that's not a good place for a judge who's supposed to be on partial to be I'm giving jail time to some, to one, you know, one person, and not another, who still have a more serious crime.
Pat-- Last question, sir, we don't know what Judge Juan Merchan is going to do, but we haven't heard a lot from him regarding the numerous contempt charges against Mr. Trump. What concern Do you have that he may layer that on what the jury had to say?
Wahl-- You know, I think once again, we're looking at a judge here who openly campaigned against Donald Trump. He literally campaigned. That he would go after the former president. I do not expect a favorable sentencing. I could be wrong. Time will tell. We will see July 11th, but I think we're going to see a fairly strict sentence. And once again, I think that's going to come back and reflect poorly on this case. It's going to come into, you know that that's going to be used in the appeal process as the Trump campaign and the Trump legal team point out the double standard and that that not everyone from this court is being treated equally, and that's not a justice system we want. That's not a not a fear trial. And I think it's, I think it's, I think this is going to be used in the future, both politically, in the court of public opinion, but also in the appeal process as we move forward with this court case.
