ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
A few days before President Trump took over the White House for the second time, I got back in touch with someone I met years ago during the first Trump administration.
ANDREA LINO: My name is Andrea Lino, and I am an immigration lawyer.
SHAPIRO: She's based in Seattle with clients in a bunch of Western states.
LINO: I represent individuals who are detained in immigration custody.
SHAPIRO: Immigration was the central focus of Donald Trump's presidential campaign.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: When I'm reelected, we will begin - and we have no choice - the largest deportation operation in American history.
(CHEERING)
SHAPIRO: Tonight, he'll address Congress and the nation in a major speech, where he'll sum up what he's accomplished in his first month. I wanted to know what that month has felt like to someone far outside Washington, D.C., who represents some of the people the administration is targeting for deportation. So I occasionally checked in with Andrea Lino over these last weeks, starting in mid-January just before Inauguration Day.
LINO: I think that no knowing what's going to happen, it's scary.
SHAPIRO: She told me the worst part was the uncertainty.
LINO: But at the same time, I feel that I am in the right place. So I feel pretty privileged to be able to use my work and my knowledge to make people feel safer.
SHAPIRO: Before Trump was sworn in, Lino was spending time calming people down and educating them.
LINO: I say there is going to be a lot of action. There is going to be a lot of executive orders that sound very scary, but that that doesn't mean that it's going to happen.
SHAPIRO: So you're telling people don't believe everything you hear?
LINO: Exactly. Don't believe everything you hear. I feel that what they want is, like, a lot of people get self-deported because they are afraid.
SHAPIRO: I could imagine someone in your position feeling like, oh, no, not this again, or, this is what I trained for. This is what I live for. Bring it on. Where are you on a scale between those two emotions?
LINO: Oh, no. I feel more like, no, this - not again. I tried to, like, have hope in humanity, but I am feeling pretty tired (laughter). And it's not like a great feeling to start four years. And so I am ready to fight. I have the energy, but I feel sad (laughter) for what is about to happen.
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TRUMP: I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...
JOHN ROBERTS: That I will faithfully execute...
TRUMP: ...That I will faithfully execute...
SHAPIRO: During Donald Trump's first week in office, he signed dozens of executive orders, and many were about immigration.
LINO: Today is January 27, Monday.
SHAPIRO: Exactly one week after President Trump took the oath of office.
LINO: Correct.
SHAPIRO: What's the week been like for you?
LINO: Ooh, it feels that it has been a year. It's just a lot. I don't know where to even start.
SHAPIRO: Andrea Lino told me about one client of hers in Denver. He was getting cancer treatment. A friend picked him up from chemo, and they stopped at a Walmart on the way home. The friend went into the store while the client stayed in the car. Then the client called Andrea and said immigration agents are in Walmart arresting people.
LINO: So all that I was telling him is that, well, you remain in the car. You - the car is your premise, so you don't open the door unless they have a warrant for your arrest. And my client was obviously pretty overwhelmed and upset. And the friend had the keys for the car. So after a lot of waiting, the friend came outside. And my understanding is that they arrested just one person, and it was because the person ran. And it's, like, the first thing that we tell people is, like, you don't have to run because then you are giving them a reason - right? - to arrest you.
SHAPIRO: When we asked the Denver Office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement about this incident, they told us, quote, "due to our operational tempo and the increased interest in our agency, we are not able to research and respond to rumors or specifics of routine daily operations."
In that first week of the Trump presidency, Lino did not see mass arrests or a spike in deportations. What she saw was panic, and she thinks that was deliberate.
LINO: I feel that he was just moving way faster than I anticipated. But at the end of the day, there are still rights. And he's not above the law, and his administration is not above the law. But he's definitely making our job harder, and he's making people panic.
SHAPIRO: Some of her clients have been scared enough to self-deport, and the Trump administration has specifically said that's one of their goals.
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KRISTI NOEM: Leave now. If you don't, we will find you, and we will deport you. You will never return.
SHAPIRO: Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem delivered this message in a video on her department's YouTube page.
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NOEM: Follow the law, and you'll find opportunity. Break it, and you'll find consequences. The choice is yours. America welcomes...
LINO: Today is February 24, 2025.
SHAPIRO: Does it now feel like the dust has settled a little bit, or is there still that sense of chaos and uncertainty?
LINO: I think that there has been so many other distractions from this administration that it's affecting also other people now, not just immigrants but also, I mean, federal workers, you know, transgender individuals - that the focus is not just immigration. So that feels kind of a relief in a weird way because I also know that a lot of other people are, like, suffering.
SHAPIRO: Andrea Lino told me her organization, the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project, did have a big victory in the last month. When the ACLU went to court challenging Trump's executive order aimed at ending birthright citizenship, they needed to find people who would actually be harmed by the policy.
LINO: Undocumented women who are currently pregnant and about to have a child.
SHAPIRO: And so that included some of your clients?
LINO: That included, yeah, some of our clients. Correct.
SHAPIRO: So when the judge issued the ruling siding with your clients, what was that day like for you?
LINO: It was great. You know, it was like, OK, at least there is - like, we can believe again in check and balances, you know? But at the same time, I feel like I just worried for what's going to happen once that he goes to the Supreme Court because I do not have a lot of faith in the Supreme Court anymore.
SHAPIRO: But at least for one day, you could exhale.
LINO: Yeah, exactly.
SHAPIRO: The big pattern she's seen in the last month - not major workplace raids or neighborhood sweeps. Instead, it's a lot of traffic stops.
LINO: What we call driving while Black or brown, basically - they just follow those people, stop them and ask them where they are from, which is illegal. You have to have a reasonable suspicion to believe that a person is here unlawfully.
SHAPIRO: And she sees big geographic differences. Like, she told us about some clients who live in eastern Washington state. Police there don't cooperate with ICE, but her clients work over the state line in Idaho, which is where cops pulled them over.
LINO: So they were arrested there while they were going to work in construction in a house.
SHAPIRO: Four people were in the car. One decided to just leave the country. Three of them decided to challenge their arrest.
LINO: We were honest with them and said that this could take months, you know? So - and it's months of detention.
SHAPIRO: The bond hearing for the three men was the day after we spoke. So the next day when she got out of court, Andrea Lino emailed us with an update - the judge deemed her clients a flight risk. Bond denied. She wrote, pretty devastating for my clients and their families. She plans to continue challenging their arrest, but they'll remain locked up while their case unfolds.
(SOUNDBITE OF RENAO SONG, "LIFELINE") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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