A MARTÍNEZ, BYLINE: Maksym Butkevych was not part of the Ukrainian military when Russia launched its full-scale invasion three years ago. In fact, Butkevych was a journalist and an activist. And those in his circles would've called him a pacifist and an anti-militarist. Still, compelled by the notion that sometimes the only way to stop violent crime in huge proportions is to use force, he volunteered and became a commander in Ukraine's armed forces. Butkevych was captured by the Russian army in the summer of 2022 in eastern Ukraine after his platoon became surrounded.
MAKSYM BUTKEVYCH: We've lost communication, and then the first person who appeared on our radios was a soldier from a neighboring battalion who said that the circle isn't closed yet. And if we go by landmarks, he will indicate we'll get out together with him. Basically, he was captured already by Russians, so he lured us onto Russian positions, and we couldn't even run or hide because it was an open field.
MARTÍNEZ: Butkevych told me about his difficult first months, the physical pain, such as beatings and torture.
BUTKEVYCH: There was an ideological moment, a Russian military officer who's done that. As he said, he was teaching us Ukrainian history by reciting Vladimir Putin's address to the nation. Then he forced us to repeat it. And if any of my POWs had slip of tongue or paused, I was beaten with wooden stick. I say nowadays that I have a scar from that moment, so that Putin's version of Ukrainian history is literally written on my skin.
MARTÍNEZ: Butkevych was eventually charged and sentenced to 13 years in prison for crimes against civilians in Ukraine's Russian-occupied east, charges he denied and appealed but lost. Ultimately, he would spend over two years in captivity before he was released in October of last year as part of a prisoner swap. Speaking to me from NPR HQ in Washington, D.C., Butkevych tells me that Russian captivity may have done many things to him, but what it did not do was change his mind about what Ukraine needs to do to ensure its success once the war is over.
BUTKEVYCH: What was really important to understand, what is the main difference between us and those who attacked us and those who are killing us, and the main value is people, human beings, and their rights and their plight and their freedom and what they feel like and how they live. And the state is just a tool or should be just a tool. I mean, this sounds like a very banal thing. But when you look at Russia - and I've seen it from inside - this is just the opposite because people are disposable material, are valued only when they serve the state. And, of course, the state is embodied in national leader. So it's totally authoritarian structure where people don't really mean anything.
MARTÍNEZ: So then with Ukraine, following the end of the war when it happens, I'm sure many people will want Ukraine to open up to investment to get the economy up and running again. Is there a way to do that and still put, as you desire, human rights, civil liberties, to make that the core values of a postwar Ukraine?
BUTKEVYCH: Ukraine will need to open up to investment. But I really believe that we should do that with very clear safeguards when it comes to the consequences to people. I think that human rights, and specifically labor rights, should be not only observed and respected but developed. And this should be a precondition to any investment. And also, I think that basic, most important services should be accessible for everyone. I mean medicine and I mean education, especially for younger generation.
MARTÍNEZ: But the thing is, so, you know, I know that Ukraine has had a problem in the past with corruption and oligarchs, the very rich business leaders that also have political power. So how do you square trying to open up the country for investment?
BUTKEVYCH: Yes, it is an endemic problem for Ukraine, for Ukrainian society. But at the same time, there's never been such a huge demand on dealing with it and a demand for social justice, in a way, as now. Also, not because it is desirable, but because all the sacrifices Ukrainian people have made. So the picture looks a little bit different now than in previous discussions. And I think now we have a potential to deal with the most acute issues. I mean, although, of course, I'm not that naive to say that it will just disappear in a matter of days or weeks or months. It is a process, but it is a process of dealing with it.
MARTÍNEZ: When it comes to a postwar Ukraine with expanded social programs, possibly labor reform, a bigger role in government, is that concerning at all given that Ukraine used to be part of the Soviet Union? Is there a way to square those two things?
BUTKEVYCH: Well, you know, Soviet Union legacy is a damaging one when it comes to the social interests and areas of social life because, like, labor rights and unions and social services are regarded and treated as paternalistic approach to the state. And Soviet Union talked so much about social security of people and social rights to be enforced that quite often when we talk about them now, it has the Soviet legacy air about them. But I believe that with more than 30 years passed since collapse of Soviet Union, these things are reinvented, especially by younger generation, so we'll be able to do it differently.
MARTÍNEZ: President Trump has long said that he could end the war in Ukraine. How likely do you think that is to happen?
BUTKEVYCH: Well, quite a lot of people say that. Of course, in the worst-case scenario, he can end war by cutting of aid to Ukraine. But basically, that will be end of war by defeat of Ukraine. But I don't think it will actually end the war. I believe that really, President Trump or whoever is in charge can help to end war, but in a different manner - to provide the support to Ukraine, which is so critical that it will be too expensive and too damaging for Russian empire in making to continue this war. I see it the only way really to end it.
MARTÍNEZ: That is Maksym Butkevych, Ukrainian journalist, activist and former Russian POW. Maksym, thank you very much for your story.
BUTKEVYCH: Thank you very much.
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