SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Two important food holidays are meeting up this year. December 25 is both Christmas and also the first night of Hanukkah.
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DETROW: Well, we did not want to miss the opportunity to explore the potential for a feast for all. And to help us imagine what to prepare, we have called on Sarah Lohman, who's a food historian and writer. Sarah has put together a menu for us, and my only regret here is that this is a remote interview and I cannot eat it all right now. So that being said, welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, Sarah.
SARAH LOHMAN: Hi, Scott. Thank you.
DETROW: When you first realized the alignment here, what was your first thought?
LOHMAN: OK, first thought was, of course, fry everything.
DETROW: Yeah.
LOHMAN: I mean, maybe it's obvious, maybe it's my first thought, but I was like, let's fry things that have never been fried before. Let's make it the Iowa State Fair up in here.
DETROW: (Laughter).
LOHMAN: OK, so the fun part of this project for me was I got to reach out to my community. And I started talking to my friend Leah Koenig, who is the author of the recent cookbook "Portico," which is about Roman Jewish culture. And she pointed out to me that latke, the traditional Hanukkah fried potato pancake - they really aren't that old in terms of Judaism. The practice originates with German Jews in the late 18th century. So that's like a drop in the bucket of the multiple-thousand-year history. So that's when I said, OK, well, is there another direction we can go here?
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DETROW: So you have put together a menu. And before we go into it, tell me...
LOHMAN: Feast.
DETROW: A feast - important correction.
LOHMAN: (Laughter) I think.
DETROW: Tell me what you ended up organizing it around. What were the central thoughts? What were you trying to bring together?
LOHMAN: Well, I also happen to know a lot of people who are Christian or specifically Catholic and Jewish from populations around the world. And I think particularly in America, we can get sort of lost the idea of Christian as being a majority faith here, whereas in most of the world, it is a minority faith. And so I decided to put together a multicourse menu that looks at regions that have traditional, historical Christian and Jewish populations and look at where their food intersects and differentiates. I really believe that, like, cooking can be an act of learning; eating can be an act of education. And so I wanted to use this moment, this party, this feast, this festival to make space for the understanding of the long histories of these faiths throughout the world.
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DETROW: That being said, let's get going. Tell us what the first course is.
LOHMAN: OK, so for the first course, we're going to go to China, which does have a historical Jewish population. No one's quite sure when they came, but they came into the area around Kaifeng, which is in Henan, which - not Hunan, Henan, which is a northern Chinese province. And it's difficult to trace dishes from Jewish ancestry there. There's maybe only about 1,000 Kaifeng Jews today. But one we know of is a Kaifeng noodle-blanketed carp. And it's a whole fish that's wok fried, and it's served with a sauce made from vinegar, rice wine, ginger and scallions. And then you top it with crispy fried noodles.
But if you're not up for frying a whole fish, which not everybody is, I would recommend ordering in some Henanese cuisine. Soup dumplings, or xiaolongbao, are from the Henan area. But don't get the pork ones. Get ones made with lamb or chicken and vegetables, or you could also order in some hui mian (ph), which are wide wheat noodles. I should note in this whole menu, I decided to avoid pork, shellfish, and I didn't serve meat and dairy so that anyone can come to your house for this party of any religious background and be able to eat the food.
DETROW: All right, so walk me through the last main dish.
LOHMAN: OK, so last main dish, we're going to go to Ethiopia. And I think, you know, this might be - sound like a simple answer, but the national dish of Ethiopia is dora wat, which is a chicken stew, and it's dark meat chicken, slow cooked with hard boiled eggs, garlic ginger, onions, tomato, and you finish the top with a sprinkle of black cardamom. So I also love the connections, the spice connections and flavor connections made through these dishes. Now, dora wat is sort of the Coptic Christian name for it, but it's also known as sanbat wat in Ethiopian Jewish communities. And sanbat means Shabbat. So a lot of these two aren't necessarily Hanukkah dishes. Actually, the Ethiopian Jews didn't traditionally celebrate Hanukkah in Ethiopia. But now over 100,000 Ethiopian Jews have moved to Israel and another thousand are here in America too. So they've moved in the cultures that celebrate Hanukkah. And definitely, you should make it with injera, too.
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DETROW: So assuming there's any room left at all after all of these dishes so far, I know you've put a lot of thought into a very important holiday item, and that is desserts.
LOHMAN: Oh, my gosh, of course. I mean, but there is always room for dessert.
DETROW: (Laughter).
LOHMAN: So I've got two ideas here. One is cassola, which is from my original person who gave me this idea, Leah Koenig. It's a cheesecake that was created by Roman Jews, and it actually descends from this idea of pancake-making on Hanukkah. Hanukkah, you know, oil, things that are fried and things that are dairy are sort of traditional Hanukkah foods. Cassola was originally made on stove tops, like a really thick pancake. Now it's baked, and now it's actually crossed over that it's a favorite served by Roman Catholics on Christmas. So it's a ricotta cheesecake made with cinnamon, vanilla and raisins.
Now, for some people, having dairy after meat is OK, but for some people, it's not. So if you want to stick to a menu that's kosher friendly, I'd also recommend bolo menino. Bolo menino is named after the Christ child, and it's a cake made in Macao, which is governed somewhat by China, but not totally, so they have more religious freedom. And many people there are also Portuguese descendants, as well. So this is a cake made with crumbled cookies, coconut and pine nuts that is always served on Christmas in Macao.
DETROW: You know, I think a lot of people listening might be taking notes and thinking, I want to do this. And I think there might be a lot of people listening who are thinking, like, oh, my gosh, this sounds so overwhelming.
LOHMAN: (Laughter).
DETROW: What do you say to somebody who, like, loves the idea, but when it comes to, especially, like, a multicourse meal, just kind of gets intimidated?
LOHMAN: You know, there is always a potluck. There's always divvying this up. Or, you know, hey, if you love throwing a party like me, make the whole thing. But if not, just make the one dish that appeals to you. I think that food is always better with a story. And I love the idea of using this December 25 to reflect on these cultures throughout the world. And sometimes they're often difficult stories, too.
DETROW: Yeah. You know, we're talking about learning about different cultures, as this menus together. But, you know, I think for a lot of people, a holiday is also about kind of leaning into your heritage - right? - your family story - right? - in terms of food.
LOHMAN: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that we can't forget that many of these cultures that I talked about today also exist within America. These communities are here. And I think for all of us during this holiday season, this is often a time where we connect to our own ancestry. I'm sure that there are people listening right now thinking about the recipes that they're going to make that have been passed down through their families and that really are labors of love that make this feel like a special and important time of year.
DETROW: Absolutely.
LOHMAN: It's religion, but it's celebration, it's family, it's ancestry, too.
DETROW: And all of this is kind of very American, right? Like, you've put together a meal that touches on a dozen different countries and cultures.
LOHMAN: Yeah, but they can all be found here, absolutely.
DETROW: Yeah.
LOHMAN: And to me, I think that that's the most powerful and beautiful thing about America, our diversity. We can be a little hard to govern sometime. We're an unruly lot. But just how many different people become American too, I think that's really the most wonderful thing about living here and celebrating the holidays here.
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DETROW: That is food historian Sarah Lohman. Her most recent book is just out in paper, "Endangered Eating: America's Vanishing Foods." Thank you so much for taking up the challenge and crafting a Christmas Hanukkah feast for us.
LOHMAN: Oh, my gosh, my pleasure. Now the real challenge is I'm going to have to sit down and make all of this.
DETROW: I think there's no question now. Thank you.
LOHMAN: Thank you.
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