ERIC DEGGANS, HOST:
I have a confession to make. I am a fan of yacht rock, that form of music often derided as soft rock or the province of yuppies and wimpy guys. And I especially love those kinds of songs that mix R&B, gospel, rock and jazz, like Michael McDonald's legendary single "Minute By Minute" and its amazing keyboard intro.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MINUTE BY MINUTE")
MICHAEL MCDONALD: (Singing) Girl, don't worry - I've been lied to.
DEGGANS: Finally, there's a filmmaker that's come along with a documentary that validates my obsession. Director Garret Price has created this film for HBO's Music Box series called "Yacht Rock: A Dockumentary," spelled D-O-C-K, of course, keeping with the nautical theme, and he's here to talk about the film with me. So thanks so much for joining us, Garret.
GARRET PRICE: Thanks for having me, Eric.
DEGGANS: I love how this film starts out by leaning into the joking nature of the term yacht rock. So let's start there. Where did this term even come from?
PRICE: Yeah, I think a lot of people still to this day think this music was called yacht rock in the late '70s, and that's definitely not the case. In the early 2000s, a group of comedians created a low-budget web series called "Yacht Rock," where they had these kind of imaginary alt history stories of these musicians in Southern California, you know, who were all friends making this really expensive, smooth, polished sound together.
(SOUNDBITE OF WEB SERIES, "YACHT ROCK")
J D RYZNAR: (As Michael McDonald) You're a sentimental fool, Kenny. You think you can come right back here from long ago and recreate your friendship just by mustering a smile and telling some nostalgic tales? That's what a fool believes, Kenny. That's what - that's what a fool believes.
PRICE: In their eyes, they kind of created this monster because they didn't mean to make a genre of music, but it has stuck. And it has come to define this music that they were kind of mocking at the time.
DEGGANS: So now we got to get down to brass tacks, my friend. How do you define yacht rock? Who is yacht rock and who is not?
PRICE: You mean who is yacht rock, and who is nyacht (ph) rock, is how we call it?
(LAUGHTER)
PRICE: So I think...
DEGGANS: I'm glad you said that (laughter).
PRICE: Yeah, right? I have to. So I kind of follow the rules of the guys that created the word. So this is music being made in Southern California heavily influenced by Black music - by jazz, R&B, gospel and soul - and included these incredible world-class session players on the albums. And once you start to do that, you start to kind of push out a lot of other artists that I think people associate with the word yacht rock. The word yacht rock has become a little synonymous with just soft rock, and that's not really the case. And I think we really try to make a differentiation of that.
DEGGANS: One thing that you say in the film, for example, or that your experts say in the film, is that The Doobie Brothers and Steely Dan are yacht rock, but the Eagles are not. And, you know, Spotify disagrees with you, my friend. There are some yacht rock playlists that have the Eagles on there. So are you stepping into a controversy by being a little rigid about what's yacht rock and what's not?
PRICE: I think so, but the Eagles are - have too much country in them. I think the one we'll get a lot of pushback is Hall & Oates. I think everyone thinks it's a yacht rock band. But, you know, they're an East Coast band, and we really make a case that this is music being made in Southern California. You know, the city of LA is very much a character in this music. You know, you had this ecosystem of recording studios at this time that these session players were just playing on each other's albums, and I think that's an important part of the yacht rock story.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ROSANNA")
TOTO: (Singing) All I wanna do when I wake up in the morning is see your eyes. Rosanna, Rosanna, I never thought that a girl like you could ever care for me.
DEGGANS: This is close to my heart because my mom, who's no longer with us, really loved yacht rock artists like Michael McDonald and The Doobie Brothers. And in fact, one of the first concerts I ever went to was with her to see The Doobies in the McDonald era. And I think it was because he had so much gospel and soul in his music, which the film talks about. How did soul and R&B artists like Ray Charles, Earth, Wind & Fire and Stevie Wonder kind of shape this sound?
PRICE: Yeah, you know, it was really important for the artists when I talked to them to get across the point that they were heavily influenced by Black music. And they wore these influences on their sleeves. They saw what they were doing with their music and taking, like, the Fender Rhodes piano, you know, which is kind of, I guess, the backbone for the yacht rock sound.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED SINGER: (Singing, inaudible)
PRICE: You really see an evolution in the '70s as music changed to this more poppier (ph), jazz infused, R&B infused music that was dominating pop culture, also. "What A Fool Believes" was on the top of the Billboard charts and winning Grammys. All these artists were winning Grammys at the time period.
DEGGANS: Even though it's called yacht rock, which sort of gives you all these images of rich white folks on boats, there's so much about it that's not yacht rock, you know? Why did we end up with this term yacht rock?
PRICE: Yeah, talking to the creators of the web series and, you know, the inventors of the name that coined the term, it's funny - like, when they said yacht, they just thought because the music sounded so expensive and sheen and polished and grand, and, like, that was where the word came from. They didn't ever think about, you know, the other stigmas that come with the word yacht, you know, like you have to be a rich white person to own a yacht, you know? And they just put captain hats on for fun 'cause they were shooting a Marina del Rey. They had no idea there'd be legions of tribute bands dressing up like this to this day, singing this music.
DEGGANS: You do have so many talking heads in this film, modern people talking about what the genre means to them, people like Questlove and Thundercat, but also Fred Armisen. Was there somebody that you were really surprised was influenced by the genre?
PRICE: I mean, not surprised, but just how much they knew about it and how much they love this music - people like Thundercat, also, like - and just seeing the unguarded emotion of talking about these artists, how important they are to their own work.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "YACHT ROCK: A DOCKUMENTARY")
THUNDERCAT: I've never identified it as yacht rock. I've never looked at it as, like, something that was a - oh, yeah, that's over here. I - like, I've always looked at it from the inside being like, dang, that's just amazing songwriting.
PRICE: And I knew that I wanted to get contemporary modern artists to help kind of - I think it brings another level of legitimacy to this music. And yacht rockers deserve their place in music history. This style of music, it's everlasting. Besides just the artistry and the musicianship and how incredible they were as musicians, the lyrics - there's escapism to it.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SAILING")
CHRISTOPHER CROSS: (Singing) Sailing takes me away to where I've always heard it could be just a dream and the wind to carry me. Soon I will be free.
PRICE: They sing about these, like, timeless themes of falling in love or getting your heart broken to the extreme. You know, it's something that we all experience, and we can relate to. I mean, they are the OG emo music.
DEGGANS: So now I have to hit you with the toughest question of this interview, my friend. What is your favorite yacht rock song?
PRICE: I think we have to start with "What A Fool Believes."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WHAT A FOOL BELIEVES")
THE DOOBIE BROTHERS: (Singing) He came from somewhere back in her long ago.
PRICE: It's so influential to the music scene of that time of - what Kenny and Michael did together in that song and the sound they made.
DEGGANS: "What A Fool Believes" brings together Michael McDonald, which brings together Steely Dan, which brings together Kenny Loggins. You really are stitching together the bones of yacht rock in that one song.
PRICE: Absolutely.
DEGGANS: That's Garret Price, director of "Yacht Rock" the documentary, which you can see on HBO's Music Box series. Thank you for joining us, Garret.
PRICE: Thanks for having me, Eric.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WHAT A FOOL BELIEVES")
THE DOOBIE BROTHERS: (Singing) She had a place in his life... Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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